Archive for the ‘Points to Ponder’ Category

[text copied in its entirety from Irish folklore list to be used for my research in the future]

>Rathraige or Roithrige or Rothraige or Rodraige [Rathan] als. Corce Roide:
>Nine men of the son (sons) of Glaschach, son of Mug Ruith from whom
>are the Rodraige. Genealogical Tracts: Three sons of Mug Nuadat.
>One of the Achedtuatha.
>Dal ua Corp (Corb?) were: Dal nUiste; Fedraige, Gabraige, Glasraige,
>Gregraige, Grandraige, Lugraige, Lusfraige, Mendraige *Mennraige*,
>Mendtraige, Rathraige, Rochraige, Seinraige, Sodraige, Tradraige,
>Uaraige, RC xx 336

This is very useful. So as far as I can see the reference to Mug Ruith as an
eponymous ancestor of the Rodraige is taken from The Expulsion of the Déisi
which has been dated to the 8th century so right near our earliest
references to him. The narrative breaks off at various points to explore
separate stories of individuals in the text and there are battles, druíd and
magic but Mug Ruith remains undeveloped in the text appearing towards the
end in a long list of the various subsets of the Déisi. 

When I try to find references to genealogies of Mug Nuadat I am not finding
a Mog Ruith connection, instead I am only finding Eochaid Rothán listed as
an alternative eponymous ancestor of the Rothrige but I'm still looking for
a date for the composition. Have I missed something? 

At any rate it does seem to verify our assumption that Mog Ruith was linked
from some of his earliest references to the Rothraige (of various spellings)
but we seem to have an alternative in Eochaid Rothán also being put forward.
We also have an earlier background for some of the narrative ideas in the
Siege story and although we cannot push the date of its composition back any
further we can see that it expands on a story of the Déisi and Cormac mac
Airt that goes back to the 8th century. 

Looking at the Déisi story I came across a neat summary in a book by Will
Parker called The Four Branches of the Mabinogi which looks very interesting
so I'm quite grateful to this thread for bringing this to my attention - he
explores various Irish texts in the book and their meaning in the Irish /
Welsh context :) and I shall be looking to get this book in the near future:

"Before we explore the other main themes in the Third Branch, the Wasteland
Myth and the figure of the ‘Un-King’, we need to understand the background
of the particular group that settled in Dyfed. These are identified in the
medieval tradition as the Déisi or Dessi, a parallel branch of which
inhabited a small tribal kingdom in the eastern coastlands of present day
County Cork.

According to an Old Irish text (dated by Meyer to the late eight century
AD),666 the Déisi were a vassal people whose homeland was originally in the
Meath area. In the reign of Cormac they suffered abuse at the hands of the
high king’s son, and were subsequently forced into exile. In the course of
their wanderings they spent some time in Leinster, before being moved on
again in the time of the
reign of the High King Crimthann. They were then moved on to the South,
where they eventually established a territory among the peoples of Munster.

The Expulsion of the Déisi, though an unremarkable tribal-historical tract
in many respects, does include some interesting features. Telling as it does
the story of a ‘wandering people’ (immerge), the Expulsion is perhaps
necessarily anti-heroic. Throughout the story the Déisi are continually
harried, routed and moved on by neighbouring tribal groups – resulting in
their perpetual itinerant, landless
status. While they are not portrayed as weak or cowardly, they are
represented as suffering more than their fair-share of animosity and
ill-fortune: a state of affairs that begins with the rape of one of their
daughters by the High King Cormac’s son.

It is interesting to note that one of leading protagonists from among the
Déisi is a rather sinister female druidic figure, known as Eithne Uathach
‘Eithne Dread’ who was ‘reared on the flesh of little boys’ to ensure her
preternatural growth. It was prophesied that through Eithne the Déisi would
eventually ‘seize land on which they shall dwell’. And indeed, this proves
to be the case. Eithne first
marries the High King of the Mumu (Munster), then negotiates a homeland for
the Déisi, her mother’s people. But this homeland is only secured when the
Osraige (‘Deer-People’), rival claimants to the land, are finally overcome.
This victory itself is again largely the work of Eithne, following a
prophetic vision induced by ‘two jars full of wine … from the lands of Gaul’.

In this vision, the Déisi receive the rather unheroic injunction that as
long as they do not strike the first blow, victory will be theirs. To this
end, they magically transform a passing serf into the shape of a ‘red,
hornless cow’ and send this hapless proxy over to where the Osraige were
advancing, who
kill it before they realise ‘it was man that had been slain’. After this
follows one of the few military victories achieved by the Déisi throughout
this tribal-historic account, with the Osraige turning and running ‘like
deer’. After this, the Déisi divide up the newly won territories, to be held
‘until the day of Judgement’.

We are less concerned with the historical reality or otherwise of this
mythico-legal tract. It was probably constructed largely to explain the
presence of tribal groups with the name ‘Déisi’ in various parts of central,
eastern and southern Ireland and to qualify the nature of the relationship
of this last group with the high kings of Cashel (the Eoganachta of Mumu).
It is an almost parenthetic reference to a fourth offshoot of the Déisi
tribe – this time over the Irish Sea – that interests us in this particular
context. This is mentioned shortly after the birth of Eithne, just as the
Déisi are attempting to find a foothold in the South:

Eochiad, son of Artchorp, went over the sea with his descendants into the
territory of the Demed [i.e. Dyfed], and it is there that his sons and
grandsons died. And from them is the race of Crimthann over there, of which
there is Tualodor son of Rigin, son of Catacuin, son of Caittien, son of
Clotenn, son of
Naee, son of Artuir, son of Retheoir, son of Congair, son of Gartbuir, son
of Alchoil, son of Trestin, son of Aed Brosc, son of Corath, son of Eochaid
Allmuir, son of Artchorp.

Interestingly enough, almost precisely the same geneaological sequence is
found in the Harleian genealogies of the kings of Dyfed, based on traditions
current at the court of Owain ap Hywel, in tenth century Wales. Through
this, we can fairly confidently link the name of ‘Gartbuir son of Alchoil’
with the ‘Vorteporix Protectoris’ commemorated on the aforementioned
inscribed stone (in both
Latin and ogham characters) at Narbeth in Dyfed. Gartbuir/Vorteporix can in
turn be linked to Vortipor the tyrannus demetorium ‘the tyrant of Dyfed’ – a
figure mentioned by Gildas, his sixth century contemporary. What this tells
us is that even into the Early Middle Ages there was at least a memory of a
common tradition linking the Expulsion of the Déisi with the extensive Irish
settlements in Dyfed. It would even seem likely that the two regions
involved, Dyfed and Southern Ireland, remained in close contact for some
generations after this settlement.

The Irish presence in Dyfed is testified, as we have seen, in numerous ways:
including the presence of ogham stones and Irish-style raths as well as a
number of toponymic and linguistic indicators. Both the ogham tradition and
the raths would seem to point to a particular connection with the southern
area of Ireland: a connection which is also recognised by the medieval
tradition. While we cannot be certain about the accuracy of the origin myths
or even the genealogies involved, it is clear that these were traditions
that were recognised on both sides of the Irish Sea, even into the Early
Middle Ages. If we are looking, then, for the original Irish-Demetian
tradition on which the Third Branch probably drew, we should at first
consider this Southern Irish context, and any significant mythical parallels
that might be found in it. The latter points most heavily to the exile myth
of the Déisi outlined above, as well as the ‘un-king’ tale (with its
Wasteland associations) found also in the Irish tale Cath Maige Mucrama,
which we shall consider in due course."


It is interesting that in the Déisi story we have the same use of magic to
acquire land and that Parker notes this might be considered anti-Heroic in
the same way that Mark Williams describes the Siege story:

"The conscious manipulation of apocalyptic and apocryphal story elements
that we see in Forbuis Droma Damhghaire perhaps has a satirical purpose.
Does it diminish Mug Ruith to dress him, as it were, in the garments of
Antichrist? In Forbuis Droma Damhghaire, he is an impressive, dignified
figure, but it is possible that the very excess of magic in the text is
satirical. Magic undercuts the heroic code: enchantment diminishes. The new
synthesis that led druidic cloud-divination to emerge as a motif in the
twelfth century, or perhaps slightly before, shows us that Irish
presentations of the wonder-workers of their pagan past were certainly not
static: new elements were brought in to revivify these
literary representations. These were often remarkably ambivalent, as with
the dual influence of both Magi and diabolical magi in the creation of
néladóracht. We have seen that early Irish writers drew on Isidore as the
standard description of wicked magical practices, though they emphasized
different aspects of his account."

Williams, FIERY SHAPES (2010)

So some possible interesting emerging connections - 

- Eithne Uathach in the Déisi story and the other instances of úatha in
Irish stories and their connection with the Morrígain (cf. Borsje, The
‘terror of the night’ and the Morrígain: Shifting faces of the supernatural
at http://dare.uva.nl/document/133032)

- the idea of acquiring or defending land through magic rather than through
direct (heroic?) battle

- the Morrígain assumes the form of an eel to attack Cú Chulainn in the Táin
Bó Cúailnge and a similar (yet fatal) attack by an ally of Mog Ruith in the
Siege story. 

- the Morrígain's familial connections show a heavy leaning towards incest
and one of the unique features of the Irish Antichrist myth as opposed to
the rest of Europe is that he is to be born incestuously so it may be
significant that Irish texts place this emphasis on incest in the birth of
characters with a dread nature about them

If anything I wold say we are moving further and further away from a sun-god
connection and more to the darker side of things.

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Or, I should say one of my hypotheses. And again, if you are versed in Irish mythology, I would love your opinions and comment.

The stories I read recorded in the great Irish invasion and myth cycles seem to reflect a late bronze age – iron age society. A society settling into the Brehon Laws and caste system, with its powerful tribal chiefs, warriors, and elite. Deforestation began in earnest during this time. These are the people who built stone circles, erected standing stones, and began to dwell within earthen embankments known as Lios or forts. It was a society built around exposure, boasting, and extravagance.

It was not a society that reflected the values of the small groups that constructed the great Sídhe, and dwelt along the edge of the forests or in clearings; who built crannogs that hovered between sky, earth and water. This earlier mesolithic and early neolithic society seemed to possess a reverence for their surroundings. It has been noted in the literature that to assume they did not clear the great forests because they lacked the tools, imposes bias. There is speculation they were exposed to, and possibly possessed, the technology to clear land when needed. It just appears they chose not to.

Within paganism many take the heroes and gods of the Irish Myth cycle close to heart. Many also envision other-than-human persons, both seen and unseen, living within a cultural ethos reflected in the literary accounts of these myths.

When has the literati ever reflected on-the-ground practice?

Even if the literary sources accurately reflect the folk tradition and myth of their time, they are still reflecting the most recent “ancient” culture. These stories were written in the middle ages and seem to reflect the society of their iron age ancestors: those who lived ~1000 years before. They do not reflect the culture who built the Great Mounds. Certainly, the remembered folk narratives of “faeries” only reflect an 18th century (very modern) reflection of those most recent “ancient” cultures (medieval), who lived ~1000 years before.

Our stories change as our culture changes – they are not static.

I ask myself; do I want to espouse an iron age cultural narrative, or do I want to go deeper…. further…. Under ground to a more ancient past?


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Sometimes I imagine what I would say if one of my children explicitly asked me for training, or intentionally sought it for themselves. They were all exposed to The Craft, as well as general pagan perspectives (and I will continue using the general term ‘pagan’ on this blog because I feel it provides a touchstone we can come together on politically and academically). They also engage in witchy activities and hold very pagan beliefs, though they may be in various stages of consciousness on that front.

I think about the heartfelt advice given by one of my early initiators, Juniper. We shared a similar Christian upbringing, and we both had children. Through tears she bravely confessed that if she could go back, knowing what changes and pain lay ahead, she wasn’t sure she would choose this crooked path again. You see, once you put your foot to the path, there is no way but forward – whether to madness or transformation.

Most of my friends who are witches say they always knew they were. That there was never a moment of decision, only one of recognition. It may be that they were outsiders, or just felt themselves different, somehow. This is a critical point to ponder.

If you feel ostracized; if you feel outside the group: take notice whether these feelings make you uncomfortable. If there is a part of your mind seeking validation or the experience of fitting-in – you may want to reconsider this path. Certainly there will be a feeling of kinship, and a relief in having found your own kind, but consider: The Witch lives on the outside of society. Hir path is alone, in a forest darkly. There is no band of brothers who march off to fame and glory together, nor is there cultural acceptance or wide-spread recognition. There may be camaraderie, and you may finally understand your inherent difference, but think long and hard before committing yourself to further differentiation. To be Marked…is for life.

But, if one of my children did ask….even after I ignored them, or tried to put them off (you see, it is a dark path…and I can’t say I would wish it on anyone), the first task I would give them would be to GO OUTSIDE.

Not to glory in airy fairies, or rainbow ponies. I would require they spend a year learning the land: what her seasons are; what her geological history is; what other-than-human persons share the land with them; what the history of her communities are; what weather patterns are dominant; where is the sun in the sky on the longest day; what celestial observations when the season changes; what ARE those seasons there, on that land; what orientation is associated with significant phenomena, whether seasonal, atmospheric, or historical.

I would NOT ask them to leave their locale. This work does not require leaving the city and finding some idyllic country location. The Witch knows the environment he resides in, not one of hir imagining. The Great Powers are everywhere, and everywhere, are different. Know them.

At least I think these would be my first remarks….if a child of mine saw this path in the forest and reached for the gate.


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“Up to the mid-nineteenth century the bible provided the chronology for the scientific interpretation of the past in the Christian world. The timescale of humanity was estimated to be about 6000 years, and earlier propositions from the Classical world that there had been an age of stone before metal were disregarded because it was considered that the bible clearly stated otherwise.”

If you are reading this and grew-up in the US, chances are you were influenced by this way of thinking. If you attended an evangelical church, chances are even higher. If you were not exposed to the social sciences at university, you may not have been challenged to evaluate the ways your worldview has been shaped.

Myth: another powerful concept shaped by the Christian view.
Death: thoughts, feelings, and beliefs regarding what it is, and its implications, have been profoundly shaped by Christian views.
Truth: is there one?

The flavour of Protestantism practiced in the US has removed the complexities and paradox associated with religious myth and story. Those of us shaped by western centric worldview often read mythologies and folklore in a literal sense, because we have been taught to understand religious stories in this manner. We also inherently believe that preserved mythologies impart some grain of divine revelation.

Living, as I do, on an island steeped in social complexity – I can tell you…… There ain’t a grain of Truth in it! Let me toss out a few ideas, and if you are versed in Irish lore I would love to hear your thoughts!

Fairy lover? = necromancy
Going to live in the Sí? = death
Taken for “x” years and then returning?= reincarnation
the sun room = megalithic mound

The Irish were ancestor worshipers. The Sí were the homes of “many kings of valour”, and the great sovereignty queen of the area (the earth herself). What else do persons (both human and non) do, but what they always do….. If a human seems to have vanished (died – checked out from behind the eyes), they must be journeying to the land of the winds and light (beings I can not ‘see’ but feel) doing great exploits and feasting.

More to come….

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I am taking a very long way round in expressing my recent thinking on ‘pop-up gods’, to coin a bad phrase. There are certainly as many ways to experience and engage with one’s spirituality, or religion, as there are people. My own took a fateful turn when I invited the Ancestors to work intimately with me during initiation, and again when I moved to this green island of madmen and poets. You see, one winter I took a drive…

In far western Mayo, on a blustery gray day, I ventured to Achille Island. The bleak expanse of rock, jagged and forlorn, was desolate, cold, and mostly uninhabited. Standing on a remote pebble beach, a bracing wind in my face, I felt the mighty power of the Atlantic. I marveled at the hardy souls, human and other-than-human, who call that place home and love it with a fierce passion. The Cailleach reigns supreme in winter, and feeling the inhospitable landscape around me as an embodiment of her, I shivered. And then I remembered …. all the stories when the hero meets the hag.

The hero is often out on a great adventure, and often seeking kingship, when he encounters an old woman in need of help or seeking a favor. Occasionally the favor is sexual, and occasionally explicitly so. For those who reject or spurn the old woman, disaster befalls, but for those who willingly and gladly give what she asks, they discover, to their amazement, a young and beautiful woman who bestows upon them the greatest gift a warrior hero could ask for: sovereignty.

Standing on Achille, in the fierceness of winter, I understood that for a King or Queen to rule justly and rightly they needed to love the land in ALL her aspects. If they wouldn’t lay down their body for the blighted winter, they did not deserve the lush spring. I scrambled then to search out folklorists who had studied the Cailleach in folklore, and Professor Gearóid Ó Crualaoich’s book, The Book of The Cailleach; Stories of the Wise-Woman healer, beats them all! In it, he discusses the role of Irish oral tradition, as both therapeutic and literary, and he exuberantly delves into the history, displacement, and reinterpretation of the Autonomous Female — the Land.

At this point, a part of my brain screeched to a halt. Wait! That’s just anthropomorphizing a natural phenomena. *Just*. Can you see my Western centric world view at play? I took a Great Power…the rich and luscious consciousness that my head rests upon, and denigrated Her to the position of *just* a natural phenomena. Oh, how I weep to remember it. How lost and human centric to imagine the complex Being I live upon is *just* a piece of dirt! I imagine somewhere in my body a liver cell, right now, is thinking the same thing about me.

It was at this point that I began to hungrily search out connection between other myths and folklore and the bountiful, conscious non-human persons that populate the land around me. My first was Áine, Crom Dubh, and Eithne…fitting, as Lughnasadh is a special Gate for me. Even then, it took until this year, living as I do now by fields of barley, to hear for myself the wonderful story of Eithne, the grain. How beautiful that at sometime, someone lovingly listened as this sacred non-human person shared her story. Her blowing yellow tresses have now been cut…she is deep within the earth with Crom, and a remnant of her sacred body rests on my altar.

Lest I neglect Áine (how could I), many of my dear friends have felt the touch of her kiss at Lough Gur and seen her gentle dancing feet. Her swelling belly undulates the lands of southern Limerick with a dance of dream, sexuality, and fertility. She is the autonomous female of that place, and she alone determines which persons, human and other than, thrive and flourish upon her. I adore her, and she holds my heart close…. yet…… she is not here, on my ridge, where Mór Muman spreads her skirt wide. In this BlackWater valley Great Munster has a different face.

Oh…and back home in Austin…who could not love Quick Silver of the water, the great Power of Barton Springs. She is lively and laughing, a white flash with long silver hair. Her arms reach out to hold you and her youthful face is glowing.. Yet, she is not here. I reach my long arm of awareness toward her and the Great Lady Tejas, and I can…touch them. But why? Yes, I love them. Yes, I wish them well. Yes, I feel bound to them. Yet, why would I ask them to come here, to help me here?

There are some Great, Old Powers that are outside of earthen borders. They exist in a darkness so black, a space so cold, that their consciousness is as my pre-frontal cortex must seem to my big toenail. They are larger than one continent or another, one atmosphere or another, one galaxy or another. In all of these lesser spirits, is consciousness. My word…. what type of person is Mars, our neighbor??


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When I try to tease apart my own cultural bias, my very Western bias, about many topics, religion not the least of these, I find myself on an unmarked path in a dense forest. My understanding of what deity is, even knowing the word “deity”, is part of the clearly defined Western path through this forest of knowing. I try to imagine a different world view, my own had I been born before the rise of Rome and the enlightenment. I look around and attempt to experience my world with older eyes. David Abram writes eloquently and thoroughly on the experience of our sensual world in his phenomenal work, Spell of the Sensuous. In this book, as opposed to his second work, he presents for the hungry reader an intelligent discussion of how literacy impacts the human animal, how indigenous populations that remain pre-or-illiterate engage with their living environments, and how oral culture shapes and shifts our perceptions of non-human persons.

When I open myself to this way of Being, what I experience is immediacy and consciousness. Suddenly every object around me is a power, a pair of eyes observing me. It ceases to be ‘only’ other mammals; or birds; or amphibians. Instead, I am now greeted by the sensation of observance from the mighty trees, the unyielding brambles, the luminous Moon, the flowing Milky Way, and the Great Winds. The Waters that fall from the sky, wondrously alive, interact with my being. The planet, the solar system, the galaxy, the universe….suddenly have consciousness.

In the light of all this intelligence, all this consciousness…. what is a *god*? The concept loses shape and meaning. All of the seen and unseen is imbued to my perceptual field with a breath previously unknown by me. |f my understanding of deity is of a being more powerful or knowledgeable than myself, well…. my white blood cells are clearly god, as is the moss that covers the rock in my garden. These powers have strength and knowing so different from my own, so vast in their understanding and ability, that I rarely come close in my struggle for meaning. Do I, a human person, alone define ‘power’? Do I alone define knowledge? I find myself back in the forest, tempted to walk on the clear path of Western bias in a human centric knowing.

But I resist, as I hope most pagans do who desire to return to a different way of knowing and being in the living world. Our western constructs are failing us as a species. Part of knowing myself, in all my parts, is understanding how my neural pathways are shaped by culture; how the marvelous universe of my brain organizes and categorizes information sent to it from my limited sensory organs. To deconstruct, and rebuild with intention, is a mighty work. It is a worthy work, and necessary to walking a truly pagan path through the forest, as opposed to the same Western path decorated with pagan paraphernalia. I do not wish to be seen as a Witch because I wear Stevie Nicks skirts (which I don’t), or strand upon strand of silver jewelry (which I don’t), or because I have pentagrams tattooed on my skin (which I don’t). Likewise, I do not want to be a pagan who interacts with the world around me using the same lenses my culture and wider society gave me, with nothing more than a pagan film overlaid: western religion wearing pagan clothing. I have to ask myself…. am I interacting with and viewing the Morrigan the same way I was taught to interact with and view Jesus?

Of course, that line of thought is only religious and doesn’t begin to delve into the subtle human centric discourse of the wider Western culture, let alone secular concepts that are restricted to western societies, such as human rights, individualism, freedom of expression, etc. For myself, this rabbit hole has led to a fairly straight forward non-theistic animism, and to re-examine cultural mythologies and folklore (namely Irish mythology) in this light.

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In my last post I started talking about worldview, but actually slipped into focusing on just one: a christian worldview. We can hold many worldviews, and move between them based on situation. In fact, ‘worldview’ has often been compared to a lens which alters the way we view life and how we perceive the world we live in. There are a variety of worldviews, as there are a variety of lenses for my camera, some of them are: Christian worldview, postmodern worldview, secular humanist worldview, new age worldview, etc. A broader concept is bias, and particularly when thinking about religion – a western bias; our very understanding of the word religion shows this. The word religion has a very close association with the development of Western culture. Benson Saler, an anthropologist, is quoted as saying, “the practitioners of a mostly Western profession (anthropology) employ a Western category (religion), conceptualized as a component of a larger Western category (culture), to achieve their professional goal of coming to understand what is meaningful and important for non-Western peoples.”

I think this bias, in part, arises from the unclear etymology of the word religion. From the Latin religio , some scholars believe it stems from leig, “to bind”, while others think the root meant “to reread” or to “be careful”. (1) It was certainly a cultic term associated with the careful performance of ritual obligations. The word eventually came to refer to sincere worship and to distinguish between monastic and laity life. Of course today, in the modern era, with our increased exposure to practices and beliefs different from christianity, we use the world to refer to various traditions of the world.

I hope you can see how our western centric worldview colors and shapes the way we view even secular ideas (as I mention in my first post on this topic), but particularly religious or spiritual ones. Even if we have managed to scrub clean our cultural exposure to a Christian worldview (which I doubt), we are still using a western biased term to discuss many pre-western cultural practices and experiences. There are many scholars out there writing on the topic and value of a pagan theology and religious study (my dear friend Christine Hoff Kraemer being one of them) and I recommend seeking them out.

Having outlined my thinking on a western centric worldview, I turn toward indigenous ‘pagan’ practice and what it means for modern pagans looking backward through the lens of the west (and hope to god I haven’t bitten off more than I can chew).

….more to come.

1. Kessler, Gary E., Studying Religion; An Introduction Through Cases, 2008

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